Looks like I've gone Leica mad!
If you've read anything about the Leica M8 on the internet you've undoubtedly heard about all of its "issues," so I won't bother going over them to any great extent, but I will add my thoughts on them.
The shutter is louder than a film Leica, no doubt about it, but it's not really loud either. I'd agree with what some people have said about the shutter making a different kind of noise, but honestly it's as loud as pretty much any DSLR these days. Of course, there are a couple of advantages to the noisier shutter in the M8 versus the quieter one in the M9, M8.2 and so-called M8.1, such as 1/8000th second top shutter speed and 1/250th flash sync. In a professional-grade camera, I really appreciate the higher flash sync, so I'll put up with a slightly noisier--but not really noisy--shutter.
One thing that really bothers me: why no PC-sync port?! I know a lot of people say, "oh, well a M-rangefinder is about natural light shooting," but that's stupid. Photography is about controlling light, whether it's existing or not, and sometimes I'd like to be able to plug some studio lights into the camera and still be able to use the shoe for additional viewfinders. I can't believe the M9 still doesn't have a PC-sync port.
The camera itself is really rather unobtrusive--it's smallish and it looks like something you dug out of your grandpa's closet--unless someone happens to recognize it as a Leica. It's sort of funny to watch people process why an "antique" camera like this has an LCD on the back, and inevitably they ask, "Is this digital?" I've always wondered what they'd think if I said no.
I sort of have mixed feelings about removing the bottom plate to change the battery and the SD card, but it's not too much trouble; I know some people think it's a bother, but it is what it is. Battery life is as you've heard: on the low side. I usually take my M8 on vacation with me and I'm always careful to charge the battery every night; I'd like to just carry an extra battery pack, but they're stupidly pricey. I'd guess about 400 shots to a charge when you're not doing a lot of image review.
It has a 1.33x crop factor compared to 35mm film, and that's a little annoying, but to me since it's a rangefinder and you're not actually looking through the lens it seems easier to me to adjust to than the 1.5x or 1.6x common to most DSLRs. I would still appreciate a full frame sensor, but the M9 is just more than I can honestly justify spending on a camera (and sometimes the M8 is as well). I sold my Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm f/2.5 PII and replaced it with their Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 MC, and I'm fairly happy with it as a basic "normal" lens, and it wasn't too outrageously expensive.
The general conclusion on the internet is that the M8 is too noisy regarding higher ISO settings. And I'd maybe agree, but while it's no D700 or 5D Mark II, it's also an improvement over most APS-C DSLRs out there. Noise aside, I've worked with files from a lot of different cameras and the M8 files have a crispness that I haven't been able to find in other cameras, and I'd wager that the lack of any anti-alias filter in the camera is the reason. I've compared the M8 against the Canon 7D, and I'd conclude that, in terms of resolution, the M8 is a match for the 7D. A camera like the 5D Mark II has an advantage at large print sizes, but I think up to 11x14 or so the M8 is a strong contender.
IR/UV sensitivity is an issue, and the whole black-into-magenta thing shows up pretty easily. Leica sent me two filters to block it, but even with coded lenses the whole cyan corner shift is still a bit of an issue at times. I've coded my lenses with markers, but my Zeiss and Leica lenses rub off too easily. Voigtlander lenses have a nice groove in the mount to prevent the self-coding from wearing off, but I tend to favor Zeiss lenses, and I find myself recoding them every four or five lens changes. But having an infrared sensitive camera is actually pretty nice, and a simple Hoya R72 visible light blocking filter is all that's needed to take advantage of it. The best thing is that unlike on an SLR, focusing (and metering even!) is as easy as ever.
I actually sold off nearly all of my Canon kit in order to purchase more M-mount lenses. I thought I'd keep the Canon stuff for the things that a rangefinder isn't suitable for, but it turned out that for what I was shooting a rangefinder could do 90% of it. One thing that turned out to be pretty neat was that when I put my Canon ST-E2 wireless controller on my M8, I found out that if I used the 580EX II Speedlights set in manual wireless mode I could fire them off with a maximum sync-speed of 1/90th second! I just had to make sure that the M8 wasn't set to second curtain sync or it'd miss the flash, but I was surprised that this worked at all. In the end though, the 580s were sold and I've picked up some Nikon SB-24s that work great with the M8.
Anyway, I really like the M8, but it's not a camera for everyone, and there's times that I really miss having a DSLR. Having such an anachronistic camera is always going to be a bit of a struggle unless you're either wealthy enough to not really care about it, or have a specific enough shooting style that you can make the most of it. I wouldn't really say that I'm either of those things, and I'd probably be better suited with a camera like Sony's new NEX-7, but every now and then everything comes together correctly and the M8 is the greatest camera I've ever used.
Examples (not necessarily of greatness):
Great review. It's rare to find a review that simply states impressions and experiences that answer questions rather than just, essentially, a list of pros and cons with some rhetoric in the middle. Well thought out and conveyed information, for my money. The sample shots, I think, show that magic factor that you spoke about at the very end of your review. I love the first one. I guess I see the leica as a camera that you will have there at the time when these moment happen and not sitting in the car because it was just too damn much trouble to take with. Again, thanks for the review.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I think there's a lot wrong with the state of camera reviews on the internet. It seems like so many of the reviewers are simply trying to show off how cool they are, with their 'smart' little quips that don't really tell you anything about using the camera. I have yet to find a camera that I couldn't take a good photo with...well, let me rephrase that, I've yet to find a camera where I wasn't the most faulty component when it comes to taking a good photo. I also don't care much for posting photos straight out of the camera, I see the justification behind it, but I'd like to see inspiring photos taken with a camera, rather than boring flat snapshots.
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, the Leica is a camera that I don't mind taking just about anywhere with me. When I travel, it's nearly always with me, and actually if I could find a better bag to carry it in, it would always be with me (my current bag is a tad bulkier than I'd like, but where it used to hold one SLR it now holds the M8 and three lenses, or the M8 and my M2 both with lenses attached).
Anyway, thanks for reading.
Hey Conan, you mention APS-C CMOS censors in your post here. Have you worked with images captured through Canon's rebel t2i DSLR (which has an APS-C senor)? I'm curious what your thoughts are on it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've worked with a few files from the T2i, and I didn't really see any differences between it and the 7D. In terms of resolution I don't see any major benefit to the extra eight megapixels that the 7D/T2i has. The sensor in the 7D/T2i does seem to have a noticably lower appearance of noise at higher ISOs, as well as maintaining better dynamic range as sensitivity climbs. All in all, I think the Canons have a more flexible sensor, but I'm always amazed by the lack of fine detail, or maybe I should say, I'm spoiled by the M8's rendering ability.
ReplyDeleteIf given the choice between a T2i's sensor and the one in the M8, I don't really know which I'd choose. I suppose, if I was shooting a lot at higher ISOs I'd probably go for the Canon, but if shooting at base ISOs (which I do mostly) I'd certainly take the M8's sensor.
Hope that helps.
I think your astute observation of less noise but un-sharp images (with the t2i) go hand-in-hand. For instance, if I post-process a somewhat unclear image by using an unsharpen mask (in Gimp, photoshop, whatever), it does make lines more crisp, but the aliasing algorithms bring noise back into the dark areas (and it goes the other way too, blur an image destroys noise... but blurs the image). So perhaps the t2i's de-noise-afy software is making lines less crisp. I guess a way to test this would be max the sharpening scale on the t2i, and shoot both at a higher ISO... or at a lower ISO with a lot of darks and see then how it performs.
ReplyDeleteAnywho, thanks for your input, much appreciated.
A well written article about why the m8 is still a viable camera body for someone looking to get into the rangefinder or *leica* experience .
ReplyDeleteI agree that the M8 is anachronistic and isnt as *versatile* as a DSLR ( whatever that is supposed to mean nowadays) , but you know what, I rarely use my Pentax body anymore its almost always my M8! I normally take the pentax when I want to use my vintage M42 lenses or an autofocus 50mm for kids parties.
Another thing that I like is that at higher ISO values the grain reminds me of film , if Leica did that on purpose, well done, if it a fluke, then its serendipity at its finest.
Thanks. Certainly when I look over the spec lists of more contemporary cameras my trusty old M8 feels pretty dated, but then I go out and shoot and I forget all about it. I know a lot of people think they want to shoot in absolute darkness and make 20x30" prints to hang on their walls, but I think they really need to ask themselves how realistic of a scenario is that.
DeleteAnd yeah, I like the way the noise looks up to ISO 1250 so long as the picture is exposed well--adds all the character and depth that I remember from shooting Tri-X pushed a couple of stops.
so are you still keeping your M8?
ReplyDeletei am tempting to get one of it at 2nd hand mint condition, preparing to sell off my 5D Mark II
Yeah, I'm keeping it; although, I recently picked up a second hand Panasonic GH2 primarily for shooting video, and I'm finding it harder and harder to take the M8 with me for a shoot. The M8 images still have something that the GH2 lacks, but frankly the differences aren't that great, and I'm honestly shocked with how well the GH2's kit lens performs when it's at its optimum aperture. I'm also finding that more and more I desire a longer lens than is available for the M8, but I'm also finding that the selection of longer lenses for micro-4/3rds is on the poor-side of things, so I'm at a bit of an impasse.
DeleteHey,
ReplyDeletegreat colors in the photo with the train. Do you betray how they achieved? Is this the original jpg from the camera or edited dng?
That is from a DNG file; I never really found the JPEG quality to be that spectacular. At the time I was using Capture One as my RAW processing software of choice, and it had a really unique way of rendering colors. I just dug out that file and rendered it again with my current Lightroom workflow, and I can't say that I'm quite as happy with the results. It took some selective saturation and luminance adjustments to get it close to the original conversion, and while I'd say Lightroom's processing is overall superior, I think there's something a little lackluster about the result.
DeleteHe is trying to set the M8 to remind M9 on the same jpg canned. It might work :)
DeleteYou might be able to get the settings adjusted to make the two cameras match better, but I've never shot jpg only on any camera, so I never give much consideration to jpg quality anyway.
DeleteDo you still use your m8. I still use mine :)
ReplyDeleteI would like to say that I do, but I sold it a few years ago and moved to a Sony A7. I do really miss the M8, but I occasionally bump into the girl that bought mine from me, and she's doing better things with it than I ever did, so I think it was the right thing to do. Interestingly though, since selling the M8 I've moved back to shooting a lot of film, mostly medium format, but when I use 35mm it's usually in my M2 with a Zeiss ZM 50/2.0 Planar. That takes care of my M desires usually, but that new M10 is gorgeous...if only I could still afford to shoot M-digitals...
Deletecool! any links to the M2 pics?
ReplyDelete